Abel Strategien gegen mis matches und turtler

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    • Abel Strategien gegen mis matches und turtler

      Hallo zusammen,
      Ich hab mal nen Thread zu Abels mis matches eröffnet, damit man hier Tips und Erfahrungen austauschen kann.
      Ich würde gerne alternative get in Möglichkeiten gegen turtler uns spammer kennen lernen...
      Turtler rauben mir noch den letzten Nerv X(
      Wirkliche Probleme hab ich eigentlich nur gegen gute bzw. defensive Cammys und Bisons :pinch:
      Hätte jemand nen Tip zu diesen match ups?
      Bezüglich DoA5 und SFxT ruhig adden :)
      Main Games und Chars:
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      Dead or Alive 5: Lisa
      3rd Strike: Alex
      AE 2012: Abel
      Street Fighter X Tekken: Lars X Jin


      Comming Soon:
      Persona 4 Arena
      Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R
      BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma

    • etwas bison-lektüre:
      General Strategy
      I used to think this was a really bad match for Abel, early in Vanilla, but as time went on, this fight got easier and easier. I don't think Abel runs away with this completely, but I think it's in Abel's favor. Funny thing is, if you ask most Abel players about this fight, they'll tell you Bison wins, and if you ask most Bisons about this fight, they'll tell you Abel wins.

      Generally speaking, I'm not really afraid of Bison at any point in this fight. He controls space fairly well, sure, but he doesn't do any damage when he's trying to do that. From mid range, he outpokes Abel with S. MK and S. HK, but whatever. Just don't get hit by that stuff. Also, S. HK can be whiff punished. He can't just throw it out there like it's nothing. You can look for spots to whiff punish with Step Kick or sweep, and start your offense from there.

      Once you get Bison into a bad spot, he's not a character that you can attack with normal linear Abel shit. You're gonna have to mix it up, and it helps to have Bison-specific stuff to lean on. I'll cover that in the Heartless section.

      Generally speaking though, this is a fight that requires patient play until you can garner some momentum, then you want to try to end it quickly. When Bison has space, I think he dictates the pace of the fight pretty well, though he doesn't do a ton a damage doing this. This just means that you should be patient during times when you don't control the fight, and avoid taking huge risks. When you have real opportunities, take advantage of them. Even still, stick to safe pressure. Don't get over-aggressive. Unless you just give damage away, it's very hard for Bison to take it. Work on getting a life lead, and pushing Bison to the corner. Neither one of these objectives is very hard to do, IMO. Once he's there, just keep him there. He doesn't get out without taking significant risks. Cover them.

      Defensively... I don't know. Bison doesn't have much to worry about. Just block, late tech his shitty grab set-ups. Um... yeah. Don't force your way through his wall of pokes. It just doesn't pay. Chill. EX CoD if you're getting desperate, but otherwise, I just chill. When he's doing all that Scissor pressure. Just chill. You have plenty of life. No need to take unnecessary risks, and eat s. RH or more Scissors. If you just HAVE to get out, EX CoD can be used here to some success, but I still advocate just blocking, unless you notice a pattern that you can exploit.

      Overall, Bison controls this fight, and can create space so long as his back isn't against the corner. I just don't feel like he gets anything from that control. Abel wins this fight in a couple of bursts, IMO. Just be patient, and don't force anything that shouldn't be forced. Once you get in, do your damage.

      It's pretty easy to apply pressure to Bison without taking any real risks.

      When you knock Bison down, an easy option select to allow pressure, but avoid risk is to just jump in with MK, then OS a short roll. So let's look at the option tree.

      Block- Abel creates contact, can continue pressure
      EX Psycho Crusher- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
      EX Scissor Kick- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes.
      EX Headstomp- Abel rolls through harmlessly, can punish on landing
      EX Devil's Reverse- Abel rolls through harmlessly, Bison escapes
      Teleport Back- Abel rolls into Bison, can punish
      Super- Abel can block, punish
      Ultra 1- Abel can block, punish
      Ultra 2- Abel can just jump out, punish
      Backdash- Bison can punish the roll, but Bison pretty much has to know it's coming. If he reads the OS, and starts doing this, you'll have to switch up.

      youtube.com/watch?v=2FIUz1GoiO0

      There's an online match, in which I use this OS on pretty much every knockdown. Obviously, that Bison wasn't very good, but you can see the application of the OS in the match.

      All in all, it's a pretty good OS, in that it allows for pressure, while keeping Abel safe. A lot of Bison's options are safe, but they burn meter, which is good. The less meter Bison has in this fight, the more free he is.

      It can also be good to allow Bison to think stuff like wake-up EX Psycho Crusher is a good idea, throughout the fight, because if you block one of those later in the fight, that's free Ultra (U1 or U2).

      Another thing I do on Bison's wake-up, is I'll just sit right next to Bison waking up, and I'll jump forward.

      If he does EX PC, or EX Scissors, he's out. If he does EX Headstomp or EX Devil's Reverse, I hit Jump Fierce and dash under for free mix-up. If he teleports back, I can do Jump MK to hit him out of that.

      As for other general pressure shit, the only thing you really have to fear from Bison is EX Psycho Crusher or EX Scissors. Most Bison's opt for EX PC since they feel like it's safer, and a lot of times, even if they get hit, they're willing to trade damage to escape an unfavorable position, since PC will switch sides. OK whatever. Either one they go with still poses an issue for them. Both of those moves are slow as fuck. EX PC @ 14f, EX Scissors @ 13f.

      Well, Abel low Jab is a 13f move from start to finish, which means that in pressure situations, you can always safely pressure with low Jab, and block any reversal. After a Step Kick, you're at +1 on block, so with perfect timing, you can never be reversaled out of that move. If they go for EX Psycho Crusher, you block, and get free punish with Jab CoD. If they do EX Scissors, that's free Step Kick on block.

      Basically, it's safe pressure, which you can follow up with whatever you feel like doing on block, or combo from it on hit. This also applies to wake-up pressure. Low jab is super safe as a meaty on Bison, so you can keep momentum.


      Lastly, on Bison, if you're still having trouble with Bison's reversals, in wake-up, or air flip-out situations, just make sure to cross over/under him before he can do anything. On wake-up, roll through him so he loses his back charge, and the only thing you have to worry about now is his down-charge options, which pose no real threat to you, as they are mainly just escape moves. After an air-to-air reset, dash under Bison for the same effect.
      shoryuken.com/f250/breathless-…tch-theory-thread-232185/
    • das ist sehr interessant Oô
      beschäftige mich leider nicht wirklich mit frames, was sehr schade ist, da man somit weiß welche attacke wann und womit man bei block punishen kann :S
      danke für diesen artikel, er hilft mir ein stück weiter mit bison...solange sie nicht endlos turtlen.
      kann mir jemand sagen wo ich noch spezifische match up tips finden kann?
      zb. abel vs cammy usw. ^^
      Bezüglich DoA5 und SFxT ruhig adden :)
      Main Games und Chars:
      Spoiler anzeigen

      Dead or Alive 5: Lisa
      3rd Strike: Alex
      AE 2012: Abel
      Street Fighter X Tekken: Lars X Jin


      Comming Soon:
      Persona 4 Arena
      Guilty Gear XX Accent Core Plus R
      BlazBlue: Chrono Phantasma