Rules of the Game - Der Engine Thread

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    • Rules of the Game - Der Engine Thread

      "Mike Z auf DL" schrieb:

      -----A bit about....-----

      ...damage scaling:
      Damage in BB will actually scale down to zero, meaning if you do a combo long enough it will stop doing damage entirely no matter what you hit with. It will also stop giving you any Heat gauge for hitting. In practice this doesn't come up very often, but it sort of makes infinites pointless.
      There is one exception to "no matter what you hit with", which is below. (I didn't test Astral Finishes, though.)

      ...throws:
      - When someone is thrown, if they can tech there will be giant !! over the character's head indicating when they can tech.
      - Any throw done to hitstun or blockstun is techable, including special/super grabs. (BOOOO techable 720 BOOOO!) In order for command throws to be untechable, the opponent must have returned to neutral state. This appears not to be true of Noel's backthrow->commandthrow or Taokaka comboing to Maul You super. Maybe I am blind, but I didn't see the !! for those.
      - Any throw which connects as a counterhit is not techable. There will be a giant red X over the opponent, in addition to the !!
      - To tech a throw, you must press B+C simultaneously. If you are mashing B+C and you hit it twice within the tech window, you will get Throw Escape Failure and screw yourself out of a tech. (Thanks Goryus for actually figuring out why). This ain't Marvel!
      - Any successful throw done as part of a combo will do full damage, even if the combo is prorated down to nothing already. It doesn't reset the proration, so combo damage after a throw continues to be scaled.

      ...kara-cancels:
      - Kara into throw (B~C, D~BC, etc) is still present, as is kara-FD (A~B, C~AB, etc) and kara-specials(236+D~A). You can't kara-cancel moves in chains, only standalone normal moves.
      - Litchi has the furthest kara so far, 2C. 2C~B is her karathrow, and if you do it right you will her her say something for the 2C before she throws. It moves her really far - close Ax4 still leaves you in karathrow range.
      - Tager has a "reverse" karathrow: If they are magnetized, standing D starts pulling them closer on the first frame, so you can do D~BC to suck them in and therefore give yourself extra throw range. However, the real awesomeness is kara-command-throws...360+D~A (hold A) or 720+D~C (hold C). The D gives them some extra velocity and the throw's suction adds to that. This allows you to do (for example) a 720 where they are moving closer during the entire superflash.
      - If you want to see how much these actually affect the opponent, hold A and do either 1C~B (Litchi) or 4D~B (Tager), which will do kara-FD instead of kara-throw.

      ...option selecting:
      Move input priority seems to be special/super > FD > throw > normal/command normal.
      Button priority seems to be D > C > B > A, the opposite of GG.
      What does this mean for you, the consumer? A few things, but basically - buffer throw breaks into every special move you do that's not with the A or B buttons.
      - If you are being comboed, teching with BC will recover when you can but will also break throws if they try to combo one. This is obvious.
      - 623+BC with Ragna (for example) will give you an INFERNO DIVIDAAA but will also tech throws. This works for all specials/supers that are with C or D, just use BC or BCD.
      - 4+ABC will give you Faultless Defense but will also tech throws. Universal Defense! (It will also Rapid Cancel if you were doing something, so be careful.)

      ...blocking bursts:
      Offensive bursts (from any time you could have attacked) are gold, defensive bursts (from hitstun/blockstun) are greenish.
      Blocking an offensive burst is an instant guard crush, no matter where the guard gauge is. (Not sure about if you FD it, though.) Only offensive bursts auto-guardbreak, defensive bursts don't, so you don't have to worry about this if you are comboing someone.
      This immediately made me try blockstring -> jumpcancel -> burst, which seems to work on some of the moves with longer blockstun. OMG brokenz?!
      Nope! This is not a normal guard crush. It doesn't prorate, but...no matter what you do after it, you cannot kill the opponent. It will bring them down to zero life, but no winning until you stop the combo and do something else. Doesn't matter if it's a 999-hit black-beat combo or a 720, as long as they don't get to block they won't die. This includes comboing throws. (I didn't test Astral Finishes but I will today).
      To clarify - you can indeed kill someone off a regular guard crush.

      ...random useless junk:
      - If you were blocking improperly, for example holding 4 and get hit low, a small colored ! will appear by your character. Apparently it's just there to make you feel bad. The color changes depending on how you screw up - block high+hit low, block low+hit high, block in the air and get hit by something you have to FD, etc. This doesn't happen unless you were trying to block, if you're just standing around and get hit there's no indication.
      - The color of the !! for throws also changes, but I didn't look into why. It probably is related to the tech window.


      Da läuft einiges anders..
      .. aber schön auch in diesem Spiel einen Chara mit Kara Throw spielen zu dürfen :D

      Mit diesen ganzen Ausrufezeichen werden selbst die vorher unsichtbaren Informationen sichtbar gemacht.. Großartig für die Matchvid Analyse^^
      "The real challenge is to stay in range of the long-term pespective when you are under fire and hurting in the middle of the war. This is at the core of the art of learning"
      -- Josh Waitzkin

      GG AC Engine FAQ

      Dieser Beitrag wurde bereits 1 mal editiert, zuletzt von Shoto ()

    • der anfang mit dem damage ist auch ne ganz interessante sache: also wenn ich des richtig verstanden habe, das infinitives kein match mehr entscheiden, weil nach ner zeit die combos keinen schaden mehr machen? richtig gute idee dann dauern die matches auch länger und des mit dem low-hit-info ist auch ne nette sache.
    • Normalerweise geht die Damage in Combos bis auf 1 HP runter, denke also am Ende wird irgendwo aufgerundet. Also vermute ich dass sie jetzt Systemintern einfach abrunden, heißt sobald der Wert unter 1 fällt landet das Ganze auf Null. Wobei natürlich noch die Möglichkeit bleibt, dass man soweit man mehr Energie als der Gegner hat den einfach bis zum Timeout im Loop gefangen hält..

      Aber Bereits GG hatte soviele Safeguards, das schon dort Infinites unmöglich waren.. Würde mich wundern wenn hier was möglich wäre.
      Eigentlich seltsam das Arc Sys bei ihren Lizenzspielen gerne mal auf solche Sachen verzichtet (siehe HnK und SBX). Frage mich ob das Absicht ist..

      Hier ein Artikel an dem am Beispiel von GG Safeguards in FGs diskutiert werden.
      sirlin.net/articles/fail-safes…n-a-detailed-example.html
      (unter Infinite Combo Safeguards / Einen hat er noch vergessen: Mit jedem Hit werden Attacken leichter zu techen, heißt irgenwann kann der Gegner einfach aus der combo recovern)
      "The real challenge is to stay in range of the long-term pespective when you are under fire and hurting in the middle of the war. This is at the core of the art of learning"
      -- Josh Waitzkin

      GG AC Engine FAQ
    • to be abel to heist die möglichkeit das können haben etwas zu machen und unter techen versteht man das ausweichen verhindern meist bei würfen ( a entweder es kommt nicht zum wurf ....tech hit = wurf escape ....oder b .... man landet auf den beinen was weitere combos verhindert tech hit als recovery ..oder man rollt ab oder oder geht auch in combos wo man durch techen wieder in der lage ist zu blocken guilty gear ist da ein gutes beispiel nach dem man einen gegner getroffen hat kann er für x frames nicht techen was bedeuten würde er kann weiter getroffen werden und die combo wächst nach x frames kann er dann techen was nicht heist die combo ist unterbrochen aber wenn er techt bevor wir ihn treffen hat er es geschaft z.b bei einigen spielen kann man erst recovern (techen wenn der gegner neutral war wenn der gegner dies verhindert (immer springt schlägt usw ohne die neutrale position einzunehmen kann die combo endlos weiter gehn (jumpchancel in alpha ) ich hoffe das ist dir antwort genug ..ansonsten hard wiki fachbegriffe ...
      MVC"2" Spiral Cabel Sentinel oder Sentinel Strider Doom oder Blackheart Strider Doom ....marvel baby
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