SF4 Stammtisch

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    • Ja das heißt es. Es nutzt dir eigentlich nur, wenn du bis zu 2 Frames zu früh anti airst.
      Es könnte sich in bestimmten Situationen als nützlich erweisen, wenn du zb. Etwas predictest und es stuffen willst. Könnte mir zb. Vorstellen, dass es gegen Divekicks oder vipers burn kick pressure helfen kann.
      Ah da kommen die 09er. Was wollt's ihr ihm für Tipps geben?
      Short, Short, Super. Lernst' dann in SF5!

    • Viele Jumpins muss man schon so früh wie möglich anti airen. Da ist es mit einem AA der nur so kurz active ist fast Selbstmord, da ja der Gegner auch einfach später den Normal drücken kann...
      So bleibt er länger draußen und kann evtl. sogar den Empty Jump stuffen.
      Follow me on Twitter: @chargi
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    • Blankas defense ohne EX Meter ist ziemlich scheisse und selbst mit EX Meter kann man ihn divekicken. Anfang des matches spiel ich halt recht aggressiv und sobald er meter hat, baite ich größtenteils und hin und wieder benutz ich 1-2 dives die mal unsafe sind aber es halt zu riskant ist in dem moment zu mashen. Musst nur schauen, dass du die richtigen combos verwendest wenn du Cammys divekick oki benutzen willst.

      Alles mit cl.HP, far.HP, und cr.LK cr.LP far.HP lässt dich auf einer range wo du mit einem gescheit divekick spacing & timing die Upballs whiffen lassen kannst. cr.LK cr.LP cr.MP funktioniert auch aber nur auf point blank.
      Sollte sein Upball whiffen, kannste mit U1 oder Dash Dash sonst was punishen.
      Nach EX Dive (crouching und standing) kannste die Sako combo (cl.MP, cr.HP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow) benutzen. Die 2 Hits vom HK Arrow treffen sogar.

      Blanka Balls egal welche kannst du auf hit und block mit Ultra 1 punishen.
      Du musst halt sagen womit genau du ein Problem hast. Gibt halt ziemlich viel zeug in den matchups aber ich kann dir halt die notes für die 3 charaktere pasten.

      Blanka


      Optimal Combos:

      ST/CR:

      EX TKCS cl.HP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (midscreen)

      EX TKCS cl.MP, cr.HP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow (corner)

      Confirm:

      cr.LK, cr.LP, far.HP xx HK Arrow

      cr.LP, s.HP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow

      Meterless Punish Focus Crumple:

      cl.HP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (okizeme)

      cl.MP, cr.HP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow (no okizeme)



      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb quickstand:

      - jump HK Strike: 2 frames above minimal height to crossup
      Blanka. All reversals whiff. Works only after far.HP combos where Cammy
      ends up close to Blanka.





      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb no quickstand:

      - immediate jump LK strike: Midscreen fakecrossup looks like it hits behind, lands behind but only can be blocked frontally. All reversals whiff



      Corner setups after any HK SA bnb:

      Quickstand: Peak of jump MK Strike to make reversals whiff

      No Quickstand: jump back really early MK Strike for crossup, or
      slight delay for fake crossup (looks the same, ends up behind, is safe
      but hits front)



      OS notes:

      There is not much to OS besides his backdashes. You can most of the time
      react to a whiffed Upball with Ultra since it's so long in the air



      Backthrow:

      - crossup Strike: walk to his head, wait a bit, jump MK Strike hits crossup, can't be crouched, safe to all reversals

      - safejump: walk back, whiff s.LP j.HK is a safejump but really tight to time





      Noteable unsafe normals:

      cr.HK: It is -7 on block. If you are in range you can punish with cr.MP/cr.MK xx HK Arrow

      cr.HP: -10 on block. Even raw Ultra works or HK Arrow

      far.MK: -7. Punish only if in range



      Extra random notes:

      How to punish Blanka:

      Upballs:

      On block the easiest way to punish it would be a dash cl.MP cr.MP xx HK
      Arrow. cl.HP whiffs and cr.HP is too slow. On if he does it while your
      safe dives he will end up at the other side of the screen. If you have
      Ultra, Ultra him. If you don't have meter dash twice and use far.HP xx
      HK Arrow as a max damgage punish.

      Rainbowballs:

      No one wants to deal with this crossup bullshit. If you see him going up
      in the air just focus. He will always end up in front of you if you
      absorb the attack and you are free to punish. cl.HP and cr.HP both whiff
      once he is grounded again so refer to some easier punish like cl.MP
      cr.MP xx HK Arrow or cl.MP far.HP xx HK Arrow OR you can land a focus
      crumple into Ultra. Thats up to you so practise the punish and look what
      is best for you.

      BlankaBalls:

      Now something fun for you: He can't use this attack AT ALL against
      Cammy. Literally. It is on hit -15 (even Lightpunch)which means
      everytime you get hit or you block this shit you get a FREE Ultra, FREE
      Super and if he does it while his back is close to the corner you get
      also a free HK Arrow punish ON HIT. On block you can punish all versions
      with HK Spiral Arrows. Whenever you get meter there is no more reason
      to be afraid of them anymore. Learn to punish them.


      Balrog

      Optimal Combos:

      ST/CR:

      EX TKCS cl.HP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (corner crumple)

      EX TKCS cl.MP, cr.MP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow (crouching)

      EX TKCS cr.HP, far.MP xx HK Arrow (go to confirm)

      Confirm:

      cr.LK, cr.LP, far.HP xx HK Arrow

      cr.LP, s.HP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow

      Meterless Punish Focus Crumple:

      cr.HP, far.MP xx HK Arrow (okizeme)

      cl.HP, far.HP, xx HK Arrow (no okizeme)



      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb quickstand:

      - generally there is no true way of safe divekicking Balrog and it
      really depends on the combo. Your go to punish in this matchup should be
      cr.HP, far.MP xx HK Arrow since you get the best okioptions afterwards.
      Do a jump HK Strike like you would against Ryu which is easy and it
      would crossup. The downside to this is that it whiffs if he blocks
      crossup or neutral leaving you open for a punish. You shouldn't rely on
      this one though. A safe strike after this combo would be jump MK Strike
      from a height that you won't switch sides but still not too early. EX
      Headbutt whiffs, EX Dashpunches get absorbed and you can easily confirm
      Ultra or normal arrows as a punish if you expect it. j.LK is not safe at
      all against Dashpunches but against Headbutts. The key is to mix it all
      up. No option is 100% safe and useful at the same time so any action
      you take should be made upon reads instead of going full herpy derpy.

      - after cr.LK, cr.LP, far.HP xx HK Arrow or any confirm that leaves you a
      bit further away (cr.MP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow and others) you can go for
      mid height MK Strikes and mix them up with j.LK's or basic oki.

      - cl.HP, far.HP does only 5HP more damage and a bit more stun but you
      give up almost all of you oki options so I wouldn't go for this one
      unless you get a corner crumple or you want to finish him off.

      - Meaty Spinning Backfist is a legit tool if he has neither Ultra or
      Super since he can't backdash or jump out of it and it beat's normal
      Headbutts (theres always 1 startup frame that isn't invincible)

      - HP Hooligan is also good since it screws up his charge and is safe to
      anything he tries. You should only use this to bait or to setup a
      crossup strike if he never quickrises



      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb no quickstand:

      - after jump HK crossup Strike: immediate jump then do a MK Strike from around the 9th or 10th jump frame to cross him up. It's not that hard

      - after jump MK front Strike: basic oki. It's not possible to safejump him from this point since the MK Strike has to be delayed in the air.

      - after HP Hooligan corpsehop: wait a few frames (~3) then do a jump MK Strike. Crosses up and is safe.

      - after crossup j.LK: jump back really early MK Strike for
      crossup, or slight delay for fake crossup (looks the same, ends up
      behind, is safe but hits front)



      Corner setups after any HK SA bnb:

      Quickstand: neutraljump and on quickrise EX divekick.

      No Quickstand after nj.: nj.HP



      OS notes:

      Can't OS Balrog off Spiral Arrows.
      After Backthrow use this:




      Backthrow:

      - crossup j.HP: hold forward and once Cammy starts moving whiff 2 s.LP's then j.HP to hit him crossup.
      - safejump MP: hold forward and once Cammy starts moving whiff a far.MK and jump in with j.MP (see video above)

      - crossup Strike: take a tiny tiny step forward, just a bit more
      than for the unblockable Alioune invented. Wait a little bit and then do
      a jump HK Strike. Extremely easy to do.



      Noteable unsafe normals:

      His worst normal on block is cr.HP which is -8. Sweep is -6.

      You can punish bad spaced LP Dashpunches if you learn to blink your jabs since it's -3 on block. s.LP xx HK Arrow (don't continue with cr.MK it can randomly whiff, depending on range and the damage isn't worth it)

      The overheads are -5 at BEST so you can always punish them with s.LP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow.

      The dashpunches which hit low are -8 at best (unless EX is used). They're easily punishable with cr.MK xx HK Arrow



      Extra random notes:

      This matchup can be pretty tough because Balrog obviously outfootsies
      Cammy. s.HK is a pretty good poke in this matchup from max range since
      it stuffs the dashpunches out of startup. It's also good to whiffpunish
      his far.HK. You should also block standing during his combos to prevent
      the gimmicky overhead reset into Ultra. It would be even better if you
      could react to overheads with standblock or throw. Sometimes I do like
      to standtech during his combos and I caught a few EX or normal
      overheads. Anyway nothing is as reliable as standblock on reaction
      though.
      Cammys s.LK also goes over Rogs cr.LP. If he abuses this strategy you can try to cr.LK cr.LP (on block) then far.LK xx HK Arrow.
      far.MP stuffs his far.HP and far.HK midscreen but don't cancel it into Arrow since you're too far away to connect it. Cammys cr.MP also beats his cr.MP, cr.MK and cr.LP in overall priority. Use it from max range.

      Honda

      Optimal Combos:

      ST/CR:

      EX TKCS cl.HP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (midscreen, standing crouching + okizeme)

      EX TKCS cl.HP, cr.MP, cr.MK xx HK Arrow (corner, standing crouching)

      Confirm:

      cr.LK, cr.LP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (okizeme)

      cr.LP, s.MP, far.HP xx HK Arrow (okizeme)

      Meterless Punish Focus Crumple:

      cl.HP, far.HP xx HK Arrow

      cl.HP, cr.HP, cr.MK xx MK Arrow



      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb quickstand:

      - jump HK Strike: just 1-2 frames higher than minimal height.
      Hit's crossup if the combo ended in far.HP. React with Ultra or Super to catch
      EX Headbutts. Reaction HK Arrow or Ultra beats all Sumo smashes and
      Headbutts

      - after any other combo ending in HK Arrow you can do a jump HK Strike:
      a bit later than usual aiming for the other side. The reason for you to
      doing it later is that you're not too close enough and you want to land
      on the other side because it will make his reversal attempts whiff. If
      you see him doing the EX Headbutt or EX Sumosmashes react with Ultra.

      - j.LK crossup: not safe but if you delay it for 1-2 frames you can stuff the usual reversal headbutt. To beat it again he has to delay his EX Headbutt.



      Safejumps midscreen from any HK SA bnb no quickstand:

      - after HK Strike (switch sides): do an immediate jump MK strike for a 50/50 mixup. Can hit on both sides depending on how you time it

      - after j.LK crossup (switch sides or not): you can do a nj.MK as a safejump to keep the pressure going.



      Corner setups after any HK SA bnb:

      Quickstand: Safejump HK / MK strike for fake crossup, j.LK for crossup.

      No Quickstand: jump back MK strike for a 50/50 mixup. Same rules as for midscreen no quickstand



      OS notes:

      The crossup Divekick after far.HP xx HK Arrow will mostly hit but
      sometimes it will just whiff because your timing was a frame off or he
      delays his quickrise. It's not completely safe to OS there. You can
      react to EX Headbutt and his assslam though.



      Backthrow:

      - crossup Strike: take a step, s.LP, early MK Strike for crossup

      - j.HK crossup: immediate far.MK whiff, j.HK for crossup (can be crouched) (EX Dive for front). Use j.LK if he crouches it. It is a safejump, he can't autocorrect. Mix it up with EX Strikes

      - Safejump: s.LP 2x Whiff, j.HP for a frame safejump. It's easy to time because Hondas fastest reversal is EX Headbutt which is 8 frames.



      Noteable unsafe normals:

      Far.HK: it is punishable on block by super and if done close you can
      punish it with either cr.MK xx HK Arrow or cr.MP xx HK Arrow

      [u]LP MP HP Headbutts: For LP use LK Arrow for chip, for MP use Super, or Ultra and for HP use MK Arrow, Super or Ultra



      [u]Extra random notes:      [/u]

      n/a[/u]

      Evtl. n bissl Outdated. Ich fix die Einträge mal alle sobald ich Ultra habe.

    • die frage bezog sich hauptsächlich auf oki und generelle pointer fürs neutral/reinkommen, falls das ned klar war. die listen mit den safejumps und den unsafen/punishbaren sachen sind gut, danke.

      das boxer matchup hab ich mittlerweile etwas erfahrung sammeln können und ich hatte probleme diverse rush escapes auf reaktion abzudecken. danke für die OS ideen, das bau ich mal stattdessen ein.
      ~ palmer can all ~

      [08:38.57] <+HandyVlaf> Behinner erzählst mir was über Third strike?
      [08:38.58] <+behinner> nein

    • TR YouGenius schrieb:

      jemand generelle pointer vs blanka/boxer/honda aus cammy pov? ich seh leute die nerven schmeissen vorallem gegen blanka, und ich hab 0 matchup xp und wüsste nedmal ob das was ich üben würde dann überhaupt relevant ist. falls mir jemand ma direkt sagen kann was gut is und worauf ma bei den chars achten muss (was man durch practicemode jagen kann) wär mir geholfen, dann muss ichs ned auf die harte tour rausfinden :V


      Hab nicht so das MU Wissen, aber für mich hat geklappt wenn ich einfach reaktiv gespielt habe.
      heisst einfach sehr geduldig sein und warten das blanka einen Fehler macht.

      Horizentale Bälel = spiral Arrov punish ( manchmal kann man glaub ich auch nach vorne dashen und crmk into spiral arrow punishen)
      Jump = srk

      das sind die 2 wichtigsten sachen für den Anfang gegen blanka, die man auch schön im trainmode üben kann. Und ansonsten langsam mit poking in die ecke treiben.

      Themawechsel
      Theoretische Frage:

      Vegas cr.hp wird gebufft, indem die active frames erhöht werden 2f=>4f
      Nun soll es ein besserer AA sein als vorher (hab noch kein Ultra daher keine Ahnung), aber wurde immer verlangt weil er dann als AA besser zu gebrauchen ist.

      Ich dachte jedoch ein normal als AA braucht nur die gewissen Hitboxen um effektiv zu sein. Was hat das mit den active frames zu tun?

      Heisst das auch wenn die hitbox gleich bleibt, kann ich den normal mit den 2f genauso effektiv nutzen solange ich die active frames treffe?


      An der Hitbox wurd glaub länger nix mehr geändert, ist ein eher riskanter Antiair. Für tiefe Jumpins sicher nicht zu gebrauchen, eher wie Anti Air Sweep.

      "cant believe this, only grand finals should be on start page, the raiden player healing care is mvc3 player and known mk9 hater.. obvious troll XDDD cant be more troll, i lol,d very very hard"

    • Ich kann grad nimmer:



      Typ spielt auf'm stream, verliert das erste Match 2:0 und kommt zu dem logischen Schluss: "Es muss der Stick gewesen sein." Austauschstick ist auch nicht ok, also wird kurz der Imbus rausgeholt und im laufenden Set der Stick aufgeschraubt.
      Insert Game - Retro & Arcade Gaming Community

      "Joa, dann nomma en bischen in der Turnhalle jeübt, ne? Aber ich mein, im Endeffekt macht et mir keinen Spass zu üben, ne? Ich will welche kaputt hauen, nix üben, ne?"

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