Ich werd den Thread im Laufe der Tage noch aktuallisieren mit allen Dmg Veränderungen etc
Wenn ihr was kennt: her damit
Old
Ich werd den Thread im Laufe der Tage noch aktuallisieren mit allen Dmg Veränderungen etc
Wenn ihr was kennt: her damit
Yeb war so nett und hat eine "erste" Detail Changed List zusammengestellt. Alle credits gehn an ihn
shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=233884
Werd mein Senf ab morgen auch mit einfließen lassen und neue Setup möglichkeiten aufweisen und das oben mit einbinden sollte es fehlen.
Summary of major changes:
-Some normals have much better frame advantage for some new links and strings, or better startup/recovery.
-All waterfall kicks are now throw-invincible, EX version is fully strike invincible as well. LK version is faster and has a better hitbox.
-HP hands can be super-canceled through all 4 hits, making combos into super much easier.
-Crane anti-air super is now almost instant. It's a lot like Hakan's AA ultra, except it can grab you at a good distance.
-Jumps have higher/farther arcs, and they went from the fastest in the game to average speed.
-Due to increased pushback, MK hands loops are gone and MK hands sweep is gone. They're still possible off EX hands, but it's barely worth it.
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility.
-Special moves build MUCH less meter, about 30% less in crane and 60% less in mantis.
-FADC combos are less useful, since they don't rebuild as much meter.
-Standard crossup wall dives are gone, and any remaining setups are probably much more difficult/risky.
-A few damage nerfs to normals usually used in combos.
-Wall dives are faster, but they're still horribly unsafe on block.
-Still no alpha chains.
-Parry glitch is still in.
-Landing frame glitch is still in (aerial stance changes don't take effect immediately when you land).
Way too detailed change list.
Basics:
-Back dash is actually better, he now goes straight from invincibility frames to airborne frames.
-Crane jump is now 36 frames airborne (same as Ryu). Used to be 33.
-Mantis jump is now 35 frames airborne. Used to be 32.
I know 3 frames doesn't sound like a lot, but the difference between Ryu and Bison is only 4 frames. Higher jump arcs mean Gen can't hit people so early in his jump either, which was a big part of the reason it was so difficult to AA him in vanilla. The jump arcs effectively make deep jump-ins easier though, which makes a jump fierce/roundhouse to ultra easier and stance change combos on landing slightly easier.
Specials:
Hands:
-HP hands pushback increased, now slightly farther than MP hands. Links afterward are no longer possible unless you use EX hands.
-HP hands and EX hands now hit on the 3rd frame, LP hands hits on the 5th frame (all versions were 4 frames previously)
-HP and EX hands can now be super canceled/FADCed on the first 4 hits, LP and MP hands on the first 2 hits. (All versions could only be canceled on the first hit before)
-Hitting someone with hands used to build 70 meter, now it builds ~30.
Gekiro:
-All versions now throw invincible
-EX version is strike invincible to at least the first active frame.
-LK version is 5 frames now, strike invincible for the first 3?
-LK and EX versions have a better hitbox for combos/grounded opponents. HK and MK versions are worse for combos.
-Hitting someone with a full HK Gekiro used to build a whopping 176 meter, now it's ~63. For comparison, Ryu's jab DP builds 70 meter.
Roll:
-Last hit now does 60/65/70 damage, depending on strength. All versions did 80 before.
-Does less stun. Mid-roll hits now do 20 stun, last hit does 80. All hits were 50 stun before. (A full HP roll used to do 250 stun, now it's 160.)
-EX version does the same damage and stun as HP roll in vanilla.
-Used to build 85 meter for a light roll, and 105 for a fierce roll. Now it's about ~56 and ~72
Oga:
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility, retains fireball/throw invincibility.
-All wall dives now travel faster and leave the wall/ceiling faster.
-Still very unsafe on block.
-Standard crossup wall dive setups (where you just had to get the spacing right and Gen would fly over the opponent to land on the back of their head) are gone. More difficult setups that involve strict spacing AND timing are still in - those are more like a crossup Blanka ball, but much harder.
-Used to build 30 meter for doing a dive kick, and 90 more for hitting. Now it's 30/50.
Supers:
-Both supers now do 20 more damage.
-Crane super is now 2 frames, down from 11. Really good as an anti-air now, and it can even work if they're jumping backwards.
-Mantis super now recovers faster after it hits, which seems like a necessary change so mantis U2 could combo fully. It can cause problems against characters that flip back over Gen when they're in the corner, though.
Mantis Normals:
Frame advantage listed as on block/on hit.
-s.LP: 25 damage, +3/+5, 11 frames total (was 30 damage, -1/+1, 15 frames total)
-s.MP: 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 70 damage, +2/+6, 22 frames total)
-Far s.MP: Also 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 80 damage, -1/0, 22 total)
-s.HP: 70,40 damage (was 80,60)
-Close s.LK: 40 damage (was 30)
-Far s.LK: Unchanged.
-s.MK: 60 damage, -2/-1, 24 frames total (was 70, -2/+2, 27 total)
-s.HK: Unchanged.
-c.LP: 20 damage, +2/+5, 12 frames total (was 30 damage, +1/+4, 13 total)
-c.MP: Unchanged.
-c.HP: Unchanged.
-c.LK: 4 frame startup, +1/+4, 13 total (was 5 frame startup, -1/+2, 16 total)
-c.MK: -3/-1, 23 frames total (was +1/+3, 26 total)
-c.HK: 85 damage, 100 stun, -7 on block, 32 frames total (was 100 damage, 200 stun, -13 on block, 38 frames total)
-j.LK: Always 50 damage (was 40 for diagonal jump, 30 for neutral jump)
Crane normals:
-s.LP: -4/-2 (was -3/-1)
-s.MP: 18 frame startup, 43 frames total (was 23 startup, 48 total)
-s.HP: 17 frame startup, 41 frames total (was 22 startup, 46 total)
-s.LK: -3/-2, 24 frames total (was -2/-1, 23 total)
-s.MK: 100 damage (was 80)
-s.HK: 70,50 damage, first hit now causes knockdown vs. airborne opponents, second hit now has pursuit property (old damage was 80,70)
-c.LP: 0/+3, 14 frames total (was -2/+1, 16 total)
-c.MP: 70 damage, -3/-1, 21 total (was 90 damage, -10/-8, 28 frames total)
-c.HP: Now downs the opponent on counter-hit. Pursuit is possible, but not practical outside of the corner.
-c.LK: Unchanged.
-c.MK: Unchanged.
-c.HK: -16/-12, 38 total (was -21/-17, 43 total)
-Diagonal j.MK: 70 damage (was 80)
Wenn ihr was kennt: her damit
Old
Ich werd den Thread im Laufe der Tage noch aktuallisieren mit allen Dmg Veränderungen etc
Wenn ihr was kennt: her damit
Yeb war so nett und hat eine "erste" Detail Changed List zusammengestellt. Alle credits gehn an ihn
shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=233884
Werd mein Senf ab morgen auch mit einfließen lassen und neue Setup möglichkeiten aufweisen und das oben mit einbinden sollte es fehlen.
Summary of major changes:
-Some normals have much better frame advantage for some new links and strings, or better startup/recovery.
-All waterfall kicks are now throw-invincible, EX version is fully strike invincible as well. LK version is faster and has a better hitbox.
-HP hands can be super-canceled through all 4 hits, making combos into super much easier.
-Crane anti-air super is now almost instant. It's a lot like Hakan's AA ultra, except it can grab you at a good distance.
-Jumps have higher/farther arcs, and they went from the fastest in the game to average speed.
-Due to increased pushback, MK hands loops are gone and MK hands sweep is gone. They're still possible off EX hands, but it's barely worth it.
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility.
-Special moves build MUCH less meter, about 30% less in crane and 60% less in mantis.
-FADC combos are less useful, since they don't rebuild as much meter.
-Standard crossup wall dives are gone, and any remaining setups are probably much more difficult/risky.
-A few damage nerfs to normals usually used in combos.
-Wall dives are faster, but they're still horribly unsafe on block.
-Still no alpha chains.
-Parry glitch is still in.
-Landing frame glitch is still in (aerial stance changes don't take effect immediately when you land).
Way too detailed change list.
Basics:
-Back dash is actually better, he now goes straight from invincibility frames to airborne frames.
-Crane jump is now 36 frames airborne (same as Ryu). Used to be 33.
-Mantis jump is now 35 frames airborne. Used to be 32.
I know 3 frames doesn't sound like a lot, but the difference between Ryu and Bison is only 4 frames. Higher jump arcs mean Gen can't hit people so early in his jump either, which was a big part of the reason it was so difficult to AA him in vanilla. The jump arcs effectively make deep jump-ins easier though, which makes a jump fierce/roundhouse to ultra easier and stance change combos on landing slightly easier.
Specials:
Hands:
-HP hands pushback increased, now slightly farther than MP hands. Links afterward are no longer possible unless you use EX hands.
-HP hands and EX hands now hit on the 3rd frame, LP hands hits on the 5th frame (all versions were 4 frames previously)
-HP and EX hands can now be super canceled/FADCed on the first 4 hits, LP and MP hands on the first 2 hits. (All versions could only be canceled on the first hit before)
-Hitting someone with hands used to build 70 meter, now it builds ~30.
Gekiro:
-All versions now throw invincible
-EX version is strike invincible to at least the first active frame.
-LK version is 5 frames now, strike invincible for the first 3?
-LK and EX versions have a better hitbox for combos/grounded opponents. HK and MK versions are worse for combos.
-Hitting someone with a full HK Gekiro used to build a whopping 176 meter, now it's ~63. For comparison, Ryu's jab DP builds 70 meter.
Roll:
-Last hit now does 60/65/70 damage, depending on strength. All versions did 80 before.
-Does less stun. Mid-roll hits now do 20 stun, last hit does 80. All hits were 50 stun before. (A full HP roll used to do 250 stun, now it's 160.)
-EX version does the same damage and stun as HP roll in vanilla.
-Used to build 85 meter for a light roll, and 105 for a fierce roll. Now it's about ~56 and ~72
Oga:
-EX wall dive lost its strike invincibility, retains fireball/throw invincibility.
-All wall dives now travel faster and leave the wall/ceiling faster.
-Still very unsafe on block.
-Standard crossup wall dive setups (where you just had to get the spacing right and Gen would fly over the opponent to land on the back of their head) are gone. More difficult setups that involve strict spacing AND timing are still in - those are more like a crossup Blanka ball, but much harder.
-Used to build 30 meter for doing a dive kick, and 90 more for hitting. Now it's 30/50.
Supers:
-Both supers now do 20 more damage.
-Crane super is now 2 frames, down from 11. Really good as an anti-air now, and it can even work if they're jumping backwards.
-Mantis super now recovers faster after it hits, which seems like a necessary change so mantis U2 could combo fully. It can cause problems against characters that flip back over Gen when they're in the corner, though.
Mantis Normals:
Frame advantage listed as on block/on hit.
-s.LP: 25 damage, +3/+5, 11 frames total (was 30 damage, -1/+1, 15 frames total)
-s.MP: 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 70 damage, +2/+6, 22 frames total)
-Far s.MP: Also 55 damage, +5/+6, 16 frames total (was 80 damage, -1/0, 22 total)
-s.HP: 70,40 damage (was 80,60)
-Close s.LK: 40 damage (was 30)
-Far s.LK: Unchanged.
-s.MK: 60 damage, -2/-1, 24 frames total (was 70, -2/+2, 27 total)
-s.HK: Unchanged.
-c.LP: 20 damage, +2/+5, 12 frames total (was 30 damage, +1/+4, 13 total)
-c.MP: Unchanged.
-c.HP: Unchanged.
-c.LK: 4 frame startup, +1/+4, 13 total (was 5 frame startup, -1/+2, 16 total)
-c.MK: -3/-1, 23 frames total (was +1/+3, 26 total)
-c.HK: 85 damage, 100 stun, -7 on block, 32 frames total (was 100 damage, 200 stun, -13 on block, 38 frames total)
-j.LK: Always 50 damage (was 40 for diagonal jump, 30 for neutral jump)
Crane normals:
-s.LP: -4/-2 (was -3/-1)
-s.MP: 18 frame startup, 43 frames total (was 23 startup, 48 total)
-s.HP: 17 frame startup, 41 frames total (was 22 startup, 46 total)
-s.LK: -3/-2, 24 frames total (was -2/-1, 23 total)
-s.MK: 100 damage (was 80)
-s.HK: 70,50 damage, first hit now causes knockdown vs. airborne opponents, second hit now has pursuit property (old damage was 80,70)
-c.LP: 0/+3, 14 frames total (was -2/+1, 16 total)
-c.MP: 70 damage, -3/-1, 21 total (was 90 damage, -10/-8, 28 frames total)
-c.HP: Now downs the opponent on counter-hit. Pursuit is possible, but not practical outside of the corner.
-c.LK: Unchanged.
-c.MK: Unchanged.
-c.HK: -16/-12, 38 total (was -21/-17, 43 total)
-Diagonal j.MK: 70 damage (was 80)
我道
.
- leider hats den blanka effect, gegner wird nicht imnmer drauf reinfallen.
? Wenn Gen endlich gescheit gebuffed wird und seine Loops wieder bekommt
